Debb wrote:Jeff it seems pretty clear to me since i am the only member of the madhesi 4 on the jury that you by far played the superior strategic game than kimmi. but it appears kimmi got along with people better and didn't alienate some members of the jury. i want you to explain to people who are looking at this from a game play angle why you played better than kimmi, and why it is that i feel the way i do about how you deserve to win. oh btw can you also tell me if your vote for richard was a legit accident or if you and tina did it on purpose to get him out instead of angie. also, did you truly intend to go to the f3 with me?
Kimmi you did play a great game as well, but to me i think you played second fiddle to jeff when it came to strategizing. aside from voting stacey at the first merge TC, tell me an instance where you made a significant game play move or contributed something vital to our group pm chats.
tina you were all over the place and to be honest with you, you face extremely long odds if you are going to win this game. i was content to go to the finals with you but a lot of your moves really shook and ultimately made me lose my confidence in you. my question - why do you think i was idoled out at F6 instead of you - when you had actively been targeting chris for several rounds since that point? i also want to know if you legitimately wanted to go to the f3 with me.
and to all of you, please write a debb style poem outlining your journey so far in the game. it doesn't have to be too long. we dont want to be here all night. but minimum of 5 or 6 lines. and we on the jury want it as gross as possible.
I'll answer the quick ones first. I voted Richard anyway, not idol protection, because I thought I would more easily be able to work with Angie than Richard at that point. Richard and I were struggling to make any traction after Hayden went and I thought it was advantageous to my game to have him go and Angie stay. It was no accident but I didn't mind giving the "idol protection" excuse to help your case since I do believe it worked.
I did truly intend to go to the end with you and with Tina and my plan was for Chris to go when he went, followed by Kimmi/Carter followed by whichever of the two was left.
I honestly was super surprised when Kimmi was singled for being a huge threat and when I asked Carter to explain it for me, he told me it is because Stacey was going to vote for her and that it was a vote in her pocket, and then he proceeded to list things that Kimmi did that I did better. I wish I could find that message because I wrote him a very lengthy reply and then decided to remove it as I thought if he won immunity, he would re-consider his options and vote me out.
I think this game went more along the way that I wanted it to and benefited me more than it did Kimmi, though of course we are both here at the end. Denise was being weird to me and after what she'd told me in previous messages about being ready to make a move on Chris and how I heard she and Angie had gotten Rich to flip with them, I decided Denise was a big threat to me in this game. It looks like Tina is trying to take credit for this one but as much as she tries to re-write history, this is a fact. I needed Denise to go because I knew she was quickly becoming a force in this game and I needed to nip that in the bud before it had the chance to bite me in the ass - especially because she seemed very annoyed at me for trying to get her involved in the failed Angie blindside last minute, I thought she was mad at me and I couldn't afford to keep her in the game any longer, and so she went home.
I think because Lisa went home pre-merge nobody is really considering that as a move but I think she was destined to be a huge player in this game and while she wanted Keith and then you out, I decided she needed to be the one to go and hooked up with Rich and the other Rais to take her out but I really liked Denise so I gave her a strategy to get herself out of nuKirati using an idol bluff but she refused because she didn't know where the idol was - it was in my pocket. I thought both of these were very good plays that went unnoticed in the grand scheme of things.
Another thing was, we had planned to get Ramona out all along so when she blew up at me, she told Chris and a few others that she wanted to go home, who reacted by telling me this which made it extremely easy to make her the next one to go. It turned out to be a unanimous vote that set up my attempt at taking out Kirati because with the 4 of us Madhesi working in general unison but with Tina as a general question mark at that point, that me, you (Debb) and Kimmi would outnumber Hayden and Rich 3-2 so if we were to completely dismantle Kirati (which was not the plan) but if it turned out that way, we could make it to the finals. We were set up to do that until the Hayden vote happened with Tina not voting for whatever reason she is excusing herself with now and Rich flipping on Hayden. That was unfortunate because that was totally my play and it was taken away from me.
Generally, I did a lot more pushing and influencing than I did "LETS VOTE ________ OUT", but I did find it interesting how people who were not in our discussions and not in our PMs thought Kimmi was running shit. Found that weird. Kimmi is by no means a goat but as she willingly admits, the decisions were not made by a sole person and I like to think I played a hand in influencing all of them, not necessarily saying LETS VOTE ___ OUT, as I said.
And I think I am going to refrain from posting a poem.. That's your thing. I don't want to step on your turf. and I'd just look stupid trying.
Kimmi you did play a great game as well, but to me i think you played second fiddle to jeff when it came to strategizing. aside from voting stacey at the first merge TC, tell me an instance where you made a significant game play move or contributed something vital to our group pm chats.
Besides the ones I've already listed for Ramona's question, I think I've got another significant strategic move on my part. Back on Madhesi, before the shuffle, Jeff, Tina, Mad Dog, and I were part of a majority alliance that you may or may not be aware of. Jeff and I paired up first, and then I pulled in Mad Dog and Tina. I say I pulled them in, because Jeff didn't want to approach them himself for whatever reason, so I was more than happy to be able to take credit for doing the legwork on that. In the process of talking to Mad Dog and Tina, we bonded fairly easily and both of them, particularly Mad Dog, felt close to me and I to them. I had essentially strategically positioned myself in our alliance to the point that if we had to turn on each other I had good solid bonds with each individual to keep me safe. Or at least as safe as you can be.
I couldn't make it gross and about my journey, so I went with the journey part
Papa Bear with shocking sass He though he had control I didn't like that very much And voted out his ass
Nu-Madhesi, what a ride We nearly tied up twice I tried to work with Kirati And soon I was inside
The merge round was a lot, you see To give in just one verse I really suck at poems But I'm in the final three
Debb wrote:tina you were all over the place and to be honest with you, you face extremely long odds if you are going to win this game. i was content to go to the finals with you but a lot of your moves really shook and ultimately made me lose my confidence in you. my question - why do you think i was idoled out at F6 instead of you - when you had actively been targeting chris for several rounds since that point? i also want to know if you legitimately wanted to go to the f3 with me.
and to all of you, please write a debb style poem outlining your journey so far in the game. it doesn't have to be too long. we dont want to be here all night. but minimum of 5 or 6 lines. and we on the jury want it as gross as possible.
First off, Debb, in a perfect world, yes, most assuredly, I would have gone to the end with you, but it simply wasn't possible, especially when we look at the scene at F6.
Carter has immunity. Not knowing for absolute certain but I had believed Chris held a HII, but if not him, then Carter had to have had one. Either way, I knew voting for Chris was going to be a pointless exercise at F6. I did throw Kimmi or Jeff's name to see how Carter/Chris would respond, but Carter especially was set on voting for you. I know that my name had done the rounds also, so to make sure it was not me that was being targeted, so I had to convince Chris and Carter I was with them 100%, to make sure the target stayed off me at that point. And as it turned out, I was 100% right - my instinct in this game had been spot on and it was again here.
Yes, I had looked to blindside Chris the previous round, at F7, and had he not won immunity, I feel as though we could catch him unaware, but thinking partly he suspeted I might have made a move for him at that point, any effort in trying to vote out Chris at F6 would be offset, either by him winning immunity or having immunity played on him. Besides, with Kimmi, Jeff and you voting Chris, I could then safely vote with Carter and Chris, and if no HII was played then I could always flip my vote on the revote.
I should also mention that at F7 when I recruited you to make the move on Chris, I only ever actually spoke to you directly about it. I can honestly say that I never actually mentioned Chris by name to Carter or Angie that round. By not doing so, it left an escape hatch of sorts in the event that he won immunity. Grounds for genuine plausible deniability, as it were.
However I had to have you convinced in advance, and you were not someone I could take 5 minutes to sell this to, you needed time to see what I was driving at and the dangers Chris posed. So I had to trust you and have you already in play and ready to move in the event Chris lost. Once the challenge was over if anyone other than Chris had won, I could then get Angie and Carter to vote Chris and then there would be 4 votes - especially as Angie and Chris were still not all that happy campers with each other, and hoped self preservation would kick in. And was banking on Carter being much closer to Angie than he was with Chris, so in a choice between the 2 he would want to keep Angie. I had everything in place, including the PMs ready to send since the afternoon, outlining all the reasons why Chris had to go and who I had as the 4th vote. Everything, All I needed was for Chris to not win immunity and I could click send and the trap would be set.
Yes, indeed I may have appeared all over the place, but I knew what I was doing by weighing options up. Simply put. that is what is called playing the middle ground, being able to straddle both sides and move back and forth as I saw and felt what was in my best interests, and all the while able to make sure there were connections to come back to and bridges that vcould be rebuilt because people would need me to progress, as none else seemed willing to make any sort of impression, it simply made it all the more for me to be able to eliminate options that did not include me, in order that I could get here to the end. In a perfect world you would be sitting beside me - I said as much in my opening statement and have said so at other points in the course of this FTC
As for the poem, I am not really a poetical soul, rather leave that to the likes of Byron, Shakespear and you, lol. However, in lieu of an original composition...
Alright then, here we are. Hello all, it's good to see most of you again. Congratulations on making it to this point, you've earned it one way or another, and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't jealous of each of you. That being said, I do have some qualms about how each of you played this game, and I'm still second-guessing about who I should vote for, so hopefully I can get a little clarity speaking to each one of you.
Kimmi, I'll start you with. You and I were adversaries for a greater part of the post-merge section of this game, and I'm impressed that you could do what I, along with many others, could not, which is making it to the end with such a blatant and obvious target on your back. However, I've been kind of wondering if the whole "Kimmi is the biggest threat to win" was a legitimate concern, or if the bandwagon for that spiraled out of control due to various people insisting that because you had Stacey's vote in your back pocket, you would have pretty much everyone else's vote as well. I know you played a great social game, but in terms of organizing vote offs or influencing decisions, I don't know what you yourself did rather than the Madhesi group. So, my question, plain and simple, is what move did you make, not you and your group, but you yourself make that shaped this game the most? Yes, this is similar to Ramona's question, but I want the full monty; a breakdown, why you did it, how it shaped things, everything.
Alright, uh...Jeff, you next. Jeff, I'd first like to apologize for ruling you out when I left Thursday. You came to me in a frustrated state Tuesday complaining about how you've played a great game and should be recognized for it, and I agreed with you, I felt that you were a threat no matter what others were saying, and you were right, I should at least give you a chance to make your case before deciding who was gonna get my vote. My issue with you is that you played yourself off as a goat rather than making your influence on the game be known, which, had you shown what you were capable of rather than hiding behind others, probably would've given you a much stronger case tonight. Instead, you have to tell us all what you did and hope that we believe you. And sure, you got to the end, good for you, but at this point, it doesn't look like you got here on your own merit. I'm sure that you definitely made moves to get yourself here, but I honestly have no clue what they are, and I'm not any of us do. So, my question, while stupid, is why did you hide behind the fact that you were perceived as a goat? Why not show everyone that you've been playing the game from the start, instead of playing dumb, leaving a bad taste in the jury's mouth, and having to play catch up at the last possible moment?
And finally, Tina. Tina, I'm just gonna be honest, the fact that you made it this far...it angers me to no end. The way I see it, you're completely full of shit, you seemed to be completely out of the loop, you were carried to the end on the backs of people who actually played the game for themselves rather than for others, and you flipped at every opportunity you could with no major benefit to yourself. And then you have the nerve to say that I checked out, and that I didn't even bother with my "vaunted social game" while I could. Put yourself in my shoes; I was the obvious threat according to everyone left, I was stuck with a person who had senselessly lied to everyone EXCEPT for Kimmi and Jeff (you), a person who had openly said they want to go to the final 3 with Kimmi (Jeff), and the person who had been declared the biggest threat left in the game by myself and had already said that I'd be voting for (Kimmi). Where the fuck is the window of opportunity to negotiate an alliance when everyone has declared their intention to get me out as early as Hayden's vote, huh? And even if I did "check out" of this game, at least I actually checked into the game to start, which is something that you definitely can not say about yourself. My only opportunity to succeed was with those challenges, don't pretend like you don't know that, even though you BSed your way through the game while pretending to not know anything. I have no question for you, I will not be voting for you, and frankly, I don't want to read through another one of your stupid essays that do not pertain to anything of the topic at hand.
Jeff, Kimmi, best of luck, either one of you would make very good winners.
Hey Carter, I really appreciate you saying that because as you know, I was very frustrated at that.
The thing is, as people were hyping up Kimmi because of Stacey's vote, I decided to take the opposite approach and hide behind NOT getting Ramona's vote. I never wanted myself to be the goat but I always wanted people to think there were bigger fish to fry - namely, Kimmi, you, Chris, Angie. As long as they were still in the game, I was good to go for a couple more weeks even though I believe I played very well, enough to win.
As we were approaching the end, I was getting more and more nervous that I wouldn't make it to the end, that I would be perceived a threat because I knew in my own mind that I thought I was a big threat and I thought that was being shown. I was using my own perception to judge the perception of others about me and I kept trying to make myself out to be a lesser threat, so I could make it to the end and make my case, hoping that people saw what I saw which was silly because obviously no one can see what I was doing completely.
I played a very UTR game despite being being called OTT by Probst and by what I personally thought was a very visible and obvious game, until the end when it appeared nobody really noticed. And that made me nervous. I thought it was obvious that Kimmi and I, or Debb and I, or Tina and I were working together, or that it was obvious that nobody really wanted to vote me out because everyone thought of me as a strong ally would make people realize I was a strong social threat - basically the same reason Angie made me very very nervous. She wasn't an outward megathreat but nobody really wanted to ever vote her out because "aww, I like Angie though", and I feel like I had similar type things, or at least I would like to think so. I thought I was a bigger threat in the game than was being shown and I thought I had to hide it even more which I totally agreed in my opening speech by mentioning I did myself a disservice in that way.
But I do believe I have earned it and I do believe I deserve it and I do believe I have proven my case well enough for you to see that all Kimmi has been saying is that it was mostly a group effort but she was well liked too, and Tina making up revisionist history about the season which is a little weird. I hope that helps and answered your question. I think I put my neck out there much more than either of them, being willing to make moves that they weren't (I'm still not sure where Tina is getting the shit she's saying..), anxiously awaiting the time when I could make a move but I had to remain smart and think of what could get me to the end and what could get me to win, rather than making a move just to make a move. And I think I did that as well as I could have, of course, since I am here.
Carter wrote:Kimmi, I'll start you with. You and I were adversaries for a greater part of the post-merge section of this game, and I'm impressed that you could do what I, along with many others, could not, which is making it to the end with such a blatant and obvious target on your back. However, I've been kind of wondering if the whole "Kimmi is the biggest threat to win" was a legitimate concern, or if the bandwagon for that spiraled out of control due to various people insisting that because you had Stacey's vote in your back pocket, you would have pretty much everyone else's vote as well. I know you played a great social game, but in terms of organizing vote offs or influencing decisions, I don't know what you yourself did rather than the Madhesi group. So, my question, plain and simple, is what move did you make, not you and your group, but you yourself make that shaped this game the most? Yes, this is similar to Ramona's question, but I want the full monty; a breakdown, why you did it, how it shaped things, everything.
This is something of a rehash of one of my other answers, but there are some parts that I can embellish on.
I think the move I made that most shaped the game was my pushing for Stacey at the beginning of the merge. First off, while this was something that most people were on board with, it was still something I had to push for and work to make happen. I did my part in convincing Jeff and Debb to vote with us, and as Ramona pointed out, my refusal to vote Tina had an impact on their decision to flip. I also approached Denise about it after we all talked about it on the day of the vote and it came out that no one else had apparently approached her yet.
You have to admit, this vote kind of set the tone for the rest of the merge. It established that the three tribes were still very much loyal to their members to the point that you have a Madhesi final 3 sitting before you.
Now, for why I did it, there were several reasons.
Firstly, as I've said, I didn't think I could trust Stacey or that she actually liked me. I thought she was just using me for my vote and I didn't like that. I didn't want to vote with her and the Rai because that would put me at their mercy later and I would be burning all the bridges that I had made with you guys. It would have been a dumb move to side with them, in my opinion. As to why Stacey specifically, we all know that she can be a bit...vindictive. Sure, there were probably more threatening targets that I could have pushed for but when it came down to it Stacey was going to be more unforgiving and less likely to ever work with me again if I betrayed her than her allies, so voting out someone other than her would only serve to eliminate someone I could potentially work with in the future and leave behind a very pissed off Stacey who would very likely target me next. And then of course, the alternative was Tina. I wasn't going to vote for Tina. Besides the fact that she was my ally and probably the person I trusted the most at the time, it would put Madhesi down in numbers right off the bat and I definitely didn't want that.
I would just like to set the record straight. I think Debb will back me up on this but sadly she's not here so hopefully she did on Ponderosa or maybe she will be able to in the future.
Debb and I were going to vote with the Rais if they had voted for a Kirati, but they REFUSED to change their vote from Tina. I thought about voting Tina but I thought, I really can't afford to lose Tina at this point because she is one of my numbers. Stacey, I never talked to and she was the plan to go anyway. I thought I made it abundantly clear before we voted that I was not going to vote out TIna.
I kept telling people, WE DON'T HAVE KIMMI, STOP ASSUMING WE HAVE KIMMI, WE DON'T HAVE KIMMI but Ramona refused to listen to me and decided Stacey was correct, that we had Kimmi. Kimmi was in our group PM going along with the plan after Debb ALSO said, guys we don't have Kimmi, so Debb and I decided we needed to vote Stacey.
There was no magic voodoo by Tina. There was no convincing by Kimmi. That was Debb and I deciding we should vote Stacey out and try to work on our apology tour after FTC, which I did, which is what resulted in Ramona blowing up at me and me at her.
Jeff wrote:I would just like to set the record straight. I think Debb will back me up on this but sadly she's not here so hopefully she did on Ponderosa or maybe she will be able to in the future.
Debb and I were going to vote with the Rais if they had voted for a Kirati, but they REFUSED to change their vote from Tina. I thought about voting Tina but I thought, I really can't afford to lose Tina at this point because she is one of my numbers. Stacey, I never talked to and she was the plan to go anyway. I thought I made it abundantly clear before we voted that I was not going to vote out TIna.
I kept telling people, WE DON'T HAVE KIMMI, STOP ASSUMING WE HAVE KIMMI, WE DON'T HAVE KIMMI but Ramona refused to listen to me and decided Stacey was correct, that we had Kimmi. Kimmi was in our group PM going along with the plan after Debb ALSO said, guys we don't have Kimmi, so Debb and I decided we needed to vote Stacey.
There was no magic voodoo by Tina. There was no convincing by Kimmi. That was Debb and I deciding we should vote Stacey out and try to work on our apology tour after FTC, which I did, which is what resulted in Ramona blowing up at me and me at her.
At least that is how it went down from my POV.
I think my point is still valid though. I did say I did my part in convincing you, not that I was the sole reason you flipped, and that my refusal to vote Tina impacted your flip. It's still a move I made and it did impact how the rest of the game played out.
that's true but I just wanted to say my piece because I also was not going to lose a Madhesi at that point in the game and it was more their refusal to change the vote from Tina than anything else.
I don't have a whole lot else to add. Closing statements are like the conclusion paragraphs of papers. Just an unnecessary rehashing of everything you've already said. I don't think that needs to be done, so I'm just going to say that this has been a fun game and regardless of how you guys vote I've enjoyed playing with you. I think most if not all of you have made a decision or will be able to make one based on what we've already said. So thanks for a fun game and I'll see you all at the cast reveal.
Thanks guys. I didn't get shit on quite as bad as I was expecting so I think that is a good sign. I really appreciate those of you that came into tonight with an open mind and I hope I answered your questions to your liking.
I know my game was relatively UTR so it is not so in-your-face obvious that my game was the best game, so I hope tonight helped you make the best decision, no matter who you're voting for. I still believe I am the most deserving of the title and I hope you agree with me.
I'm looking forward to tomorrow. As I said in my opening speech, this was loads of fun so thanks to everyone and thanks to Probst and co. for giving me the opportunity.
